Episode30

First appeared here http://groups.google.com/group/Hardhats/browse_thread/thread/a5974b652ae70013?hl=en

Hi all,

I'm finding I have to spend a lot of time explaining what Access/Verify code is and sometimes people are unable to remember what that means so they either are not able to login, or they call me. How can I change the text Prompt to say UserID/Password both in the text interface and CPRS? Alternatively, I can change it to UserID/Access Code, Password/Verify Code.

-- IV

Reply to author   Forward Report spam Reporting spam Message reported Rate this post: Text for clearing space Cancel Send Discard From: ivaldes1@gmail.com  To: Cc: Followup To: Add Cc | Add Followup-to | Edit Subject Subject: Validation: For verification purposes please type the characters you see in the picture below or the numbers you hear by clicking the accessibility icon. Listen and type the numbers you hear Send Discard You must Sign in before you can post messages. To post a message you must first join this group. Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting. You do not have the permission required to post. David Whitten View profile More options Nov 25 2008, 12:37 pm From: "David Whitten"  Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 11:37:20 -0600 Local: Tues, Nov 25 2008 12:37 pm Subject: Re: [Hardhats] Intracare Implementation Log Episode 30: Change Access/Verify code text to UserID/Password? Reply to author | Forward | Print | Individual message | Show original | Report this message | Find messages by this author Calling Access Code and Verify Code as UserID and Password would be a mistake. They are better explained as two passwords. One that is known to the user and the Computer department, initially, and one that is only known to the user. This is the way it originally was planned. Now, I think the computer department knows the Access Code and the initial Verify Code, but the Verify Code must be changed as soon as the first login occurs. Adding a UserID would be possible, after all, the code is available. But other than just making it something that is asked and ignored, it would involve changing the way that CPRS works as the RPC based protocol would need to use it as well as the Access Code and Verify Code to ascertain identity of the user.

David

- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 11:29 AM, Ignacio Valdes  wrote:

> Hi all,

> I'm finding I have to spend a lot of time explaining what > Access/Verify code is and sometimes people are unable to remember what > that means so they either are not able to login, or they call me. How > can I change the text Prompt to say UserID/Password both in the text > interface and CPRS? Alternatively, I can change it to UserID/Access > Code, Password/Verify Code.

> -- IV

Reply to author   Forward Report spam Reporting spam Message reported Rate this post: You must Sign in before you can post messages. To post a message you must first join this group. Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting. You do not have the permission required to post. fred trotter View profile More options Nov 25 2008, 1:09 pm From: "fred trotter"  Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 12:09:31 -0600 Local: Tues, Nov 25 2008 1:09 pm Subject: Re: [Hardhats] Re: Intracare Implementation Log Episode 30: Change Access/Verify code text to UserID/Password? Reply to author | Forward | Print | Individual message | Show original | Report this message | Find messages by this author Am I correct in saying that VistA will support two passwords, and two passwords and a user_id, but not a user_id and just one password?

-FT

- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 11:37 AM, David Whitten  wrote:

> Calling Access Code and Verify Code as UserID and Password would be > a mistake. They are better explained as two passwords. One that is > known to the user and the Computer department, initially, and one that > is only known to the user. This is the way it originally was planned. > Now, I think the computer department knows the Access Code and > the initial Verify Code, but the Verify Code must be changed as soon > as the first login occurs. Adding a UserID would be possible, after all, > the code is available. But other than just making it something that is > asked and ignored, it would involve changing the way that CPRS works > as the RPC based protocol would need to use it as well as the Access > Code and Verify Code to ascertain identity of the user.

> David

> On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 11:29 AM, Ignacio Valdes  wrote:

>> Hi all,

>> I'm finding I have to spend a lot of time explaining what >> Access/Verify code is and sometimes people are unable to remember what >> that means so they either are not able to login, or they call me. How >> can I change the text Prompt to say UserID/Password both in the text >> interface and CPRS? Alternatively, I can change it to UserID/Access >> Code, Password/Verify Code.

>> -- IV

-- Fred Trotter http://www.fredtrotter.com

Reply to author   Forward Report spam Reporting spam Message reported Rate this post: Text for clearing space You must Sign in before you can post messages. To post a message you must first join this group. Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting. You do not have the permission required to post. Greg Woodhouse View profile More options Nov 25 2008, 1:26 pm From: "Greg Woodhouse"  Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 10:26:47 -0800 Local: Tues, Nov 25 2008 1:26 pm Subject: Re: [Hardhats] Re: Intracare Implementation Log Episode 30: Change Access/Verify code text to UserID/Password? Reply to author | Forward | Print | Individual message | Show original | Report this message | Find messages by this author

You're really mixing apples and oranges here. Ordinary users normally use access/verify codes to sign in to VistA. Of course, at the level of Linux there is a separate authentication process. It may be based on a user ID and password or something more sophisticated. But this is something that should be transparent to VistA users. Of course, other resources, such as Application servers and external database systems will also require a means of authentication. But, again, this should be trqansparent to users.

On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 10:09 AM, fred trotter wrote:

- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text -

> Am I correct in saying that VistA will support two passwords, and two > passwords and a user_id, but not a user_id and just one password?

> -FT

> On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 11:37 AM, David Whitten  > wrote:

> > Calling Access Code and Verify Code as UserID and Password would be > > a mistake. They are better explained as two passwords. One that is > > known to the user and the Computer department, initially, and one that > > is only known to the user. This is the way it originally was planned. > > Now, I think the computer department knows the Access Code and > > the initial Verify Code, but the Verify Code must be changed as soon > > as the first login occurs. Adding a UserID would be possible, after all, > > the code is available. But other than just making it something that is > > asked and ignored, it would involve changing the way that CPRS works > > as the RPC based protocol would need to use it as well as the Access > > Code and Verify Code to ascertain identity of the user.

> > David

> > On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 11:29 AM, Ignacio Valdes  > wrote:

> >> Hi all,

> >> I'm finding I have to spend a lot of time explaining what > >> Access/Verify code is and sometimes people are unable to remember what > >> that means so they either are not able to login, or they call me. How > >> can I change the text Prompt to say UserID/Password both in the text > >> interface and CPRS? Alternatively, I can change it to UserID/Access > >> Code, Password/Verify Code.

> >> -- IV

> -- > Fred Trotter > http://www.fredtrotter.com

Reply to author   Forward Report spam Reporting spam Message reported Rate this post: Text for clearing space You must Sign in before you can post messages. To post a message you must first join this group. Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting. You do not have the permission required to post. Ben Mehling View profile More options Nov 25 2008, 1:29 pm From: "Ben Mehling"  Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 10:29:20 -0800 Local: Tues, Nov 25 2008 1:29 pm Subject: Re: [Hardhats] Intracare Implementation Log Episode 30: Change Access/Verify code text to UserID/Password? Reply to author | Forward | Print | Individual message | Show original | Report this message | Find messages by this author We have encountered similar confusion from end-users and resistance to the VA terms from internal resources (who are familiar w/ more standard industry terminology). OpenVista CIS uses the terms "Login ID" and "Password" to help the end-users feel more comfortable. Both remain "masked" on screen. Not all error messages are synchronized to use the new terms yet.

While I understand the VA's original intent here, users think about it differently now having be inundated with hundreds of "usernames and passwords" for every website, email and computer they use.

- Ben

- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 9:29 AM, Ignacio Valdes  wrote:

> Hi all,

> I'm finding I have to spend a lot of time explaining what > Access/Verify code is and sometimes people are unable to remember what > that means so they either are not able to login, or they call me. How > can I change the text Prompt to say UserID/Password both in the text > interface and CPRS? Alternatively, I can change it to UserID/Access > Code, Password/Verify Code.

Reply to author   Forward Report spam Reporting spam Message reported Rate this post: You must Sign in before you can post messages. To post a message you must first join this group. Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting. You do not have the permission required to post. I, Valdes View profile More options Nov 25 2008, 2:22 pm From: "I, Valdes"  Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 11:22:58 -0800 (PST) Local: Tues, Nov 25 2008 2:22 pm Subject: Re: Intracare Implementation Log Episode 30: Change Access/Verify code text to UserID/Password? Reply to author | Forward | Print | Individual message | Show original | Report this message | Find messages by this author I would rather not have to explain it at all and the users would like to not to have to ask. I have no wish to change the code or how it works other than the text for the Prompt. Is there a way to change the Prompt text? -- IV

On Nov 25, 11:37 am, "David Whitten"  wrote:

- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - > Calling Access Code and Verify Code as UserID and Password would be > a mistake. They are better explained as two passwords. One that is > known to the user and the Computer department, initially, and one that > is only known to the user. This is the way it originally was planned. > Now, I think the computer department knows the Access Code and > the initial Verify Code, but the Verify Code must be changed as soon > as the first login occurs. Adding a UserID would be possible, after all, > the code is available. But other than just making it something that is > asked and ignored, it would involve changing the way that CPRS works > as the RPC based protocol would need to use it as well as the Access > Code and Verify Code to ascertain identity of the user.

> David

> On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 11:29 AM, Ignacio Valdes  wrote:

> > Hi all,

> > I'm finding I have to spend a lot of time explaining what > > Access/Verify code is and sometimes people are unable to remember what > > that means so they either are not able to login, or they call me. How > > can I change the text Prompt to say UserID/Password both in the text > > interface and CPRS? Alternatively, I can change it to UserID/Access > > Code, Password/Verify Code.

> > -- IV

Reply to author   Forward Report spam Reporting spam Message reported Rate this post: You must Sign in before you can post messages. To post a message you must first join this group. Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting. You do not have the permission required to post. Greg Woodhouse View profile More options Nov 25 2008, 2:29 pm From: "Greg Woodhouse"  Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 11:29:36 -0800 Local: Tues, Nov 25 2008 2:29 pm Subject: Re: [Hardhats] Re: Intracare Implementation Log Episode 30: Change Access/Verify code text to UserID/Password? Reply to author | Forward | Print | Individual message | Show original | Report this message | Find messages by this author

That would be easy enough were it not for CPRS. You would need to go in and modify the Delphi components, too.

- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 11:22 AM, I, Valdes <ival...@hal-pc.org> wrote:

> I would rather not have to explain it at all and the users would like > to not to have to ask. I have no wish to change the code or how it > works other than the text for the Prompt. Is there a way to change the > Prompt text? -- IV

> On Nov 25, 11:37 am, "David Whitten" <whit...@worldvista.org> wrote: > > Calling Access Code and Verify Code as UserID and Password would be > > a mistake. They are better explained as two passwords. One that is > > known to the user and the Computer department, initially, and one that > > is only known to the user. This is the way it originally was planned. > > Now, I think the computer department knows the Access Code and > > the initial Verify Code, but the Verify Code must be changed as soon > > as the first login occurs. Adding a UserID would be possible, after all, > > the code is available. But other than just making it something that is > > asked and ignored, it would involve changing the way that CPRS works > > as the RPC based protocol would need to use it as well as the Access > > Code and Verify Code to ascertain identity of the user.

> > David

> > On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 11:29 AM, Ignacio Valdes <ival...@hal-pc.org> > wrote:

> > > Hi all,

> > > I'm finding I have to spend a lot of time explaining what > > > Access/Verify code is and sometimes people are unable to remember what > > > that means so they either are not able to login, or they call me. How > > > can I change the text Prompt to say UserID/Password both in the text > > > interface and CPRS? Alternatively, I can change it to UserID/Access > > > Code, Password/Verify Code.

> > > -- IV

Reply to author   Forward Report spam Reporting spam Message reported Rate this post: Text for clearing space You must Sign in before you can post messages. To post a message you must first join this group. Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting. You do not have the permission required to post. fred trotter View profile More options Nov 25 2008, 2:36 pm From: "fred trotter" <fred.trot...@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 13:36:17 -0600 Local: Tues, Nov 25 2008 2:36 pm Subject: Re: [Hardhats] Re: Intracare Implementation Log Episode 30: Change Access/Verify code text to UserID/Password? Reply to author | Forward | Print | Individual message | Show original | Report this message | Find messages by this author With all due respect to "how it is in the VA". This is a subject of constant confusion outside the VA, and outside the VA the "computer department" simply does not have the political strength and respect it has inside. While this is a shame it is also a reality.

There is obviously a way to change this, but is there a way that can be conveniently modularized? Perhaps a kid file (knowing little about what that actually means).

Username/Password is better just about everywhere other than the VA...

Ideas about easy, future proof fixes welcome.

-FT

- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 1:22 PM, I, Valdes <ival...@hal-pc.org> wrote:

> I would rather not have to explain it at all and the users would like > to not to have to ask. I have no wish to change the code or how it > works other than the text for the Prompt. Is there a way to change the > Prompt text? -- IV

> On Nov 25, 11:37 am, "David Whitten" <whit...@worldvista.org> wrote: >> Calling Access Code and Verify Code as UserID and Password would be >> a mistake. They are better explained as two passwords. One that is >> known to the user and the Computer department, initially, and one that >> is only known to the user. This is the way it originally was planned. >> Now, I think the computer department knows the Access Code and >> the initial Verify Code, but the Verify Code must be changed as soon >> as the first login occurs. Adding a UserID would be possible, after all, >> the code is available. But other than just making it something that is >> asked and ignored, it would involve changing the way that CPRS works >> as the RPC based protocol would need to use it as well as the Access >> Code and Verify Code to ascertain identity of the user.

>> David

>> On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 11:29 AM, Ignacio Valdes <ival...@hal-pc.org> wrote:

>> > Hi all,

>> > I'm finding I have to spend a lot of time explaining what >> > Access/Verify code is and sometimes people are unable to remember what >> > that means so they either are not able to login, or they call me. How >> > can I change the text Prompt to say UserID/Password both in the text >> > interface and CPRS? Alternatively, I can change it to UserID/Access >> > Code, Password/Verify Code.

>> > -- IV

-- Fred Trotter http://www.fredtrotter.com

Reply to author   Forward Report spam Reporting spam Message reported Rate this post: Text for clearing space You must Sign in before you can post messages. To post a message you must first join this group. Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting. You do not have the permission required to post. Greg Woodhouse View profile More options Nov 25 2008, 2:45 pm From: "Greg Woodhouse" <gregory.woodho...@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 11:45:18 -0800 Local: Tues, Nov 25 2008 2:45 pm Subject: Re: [Hardhats] Re: Intracare Implementation Log Episode 30: Change Access/Verify code text to UserID/Password? Reply to author | Forward | Print | Individual message | Show original | Report this message | Find messages by this author

The short answer is no, it can't be done with a KID file.

It's the people that make change management (CM) decisions for WorldVistA that you need to talk to. All I can do is answer your question. In general, it's a good software engineering practice to keep Prompt strings in a resource bundle (in the Delphi/Win32 code). If this has been done, then the bundle itself can be modified, but I have no idea as to whether it was designed that way. If the Prompts were being issued on the M side, then the corresponding VistA concept would be the DIALOG file, and it could be handled there, but it isn't.

On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 11:36 AM, fred trotter <fred.trot...@gmail.com>wrote:

- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text -

> With all due respect to "how it is in the VA". This is a subject of > constant confusion outside the VA, and outside the VA the "computer > department" simply does not have the political strength and respect it > has inside. While this is a shame it is also a reality.

> There is obviously a way to change this, but is there a way that can > be conveniently modularized? Perhaps a kid file (knowing little about > what that actually means).

> Username/Password is better just about everywhere other than the VA...

> Ideas about easy, future proof fixes welcome.

> -FT

> On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 1:22 PM, I, Valdes <ival...@hal-pc.org> wrote:

> > I would rather not have to explain it at all and the users would like > > to not to have to ask. I have no wish to change the code or how it > > works other than the text for the Prompt. Is there a way to change the > > Prompt text? -- IV

> > On Nov 25, 11:37 am, "David Whitten" <whit...@worldvista.org> wrote: > >> Calling Access Code and Verify Code as UserID and Password would be > >> a mistake. They are better explained as two passwords. One that is > >> known to the user and the Computer department, initially, and one that > >> is only known to the user. This is the way it originally was planned. > >> Now, I think the computer department knows the Access Code and > >> the initial Verify Code, but the Verify Code must be changed as soon > >> as the first login occurs. Adding a UserID would be possible, after > all, > >> the code is available. But other than just making it something that is > >> asked and ignored, it would involve changing the way that CPRS works > >> as the RPC based protocol would need to use it as well as the Access > >> Code and Verify Code to ascertain identity of the user.

> >> David

> >> On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 11:29 AM, Ignacio Valdes <ival...@hal-pc.org> > wrote:

> >> > Hi all,

> >> > I'm finding I have to spend a lot of time explaining what > >> > Access/Verify code is and sometimes people are unable to remember what > >> > that means so they either are not able to login, or they call me. How > >> > can I change the text Prompt to say UserID/Password both in the text > >> > interface and CPRS? Alternatively, I can change it to UserID/Access > >> > Code, Password/Verify Code.

> >> > -- IV

> -- > Fred Trotter > http://www.fredtrotter.com

Reply to author   Forward Report spam Reporting spam Message reported Rate this post: Text for clearing space You must Sign in before you can post messages. To post a message you must first join this group. Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting. You do not have the permission required to post. Nancy Anthracite View profile More options Nov 25 2008, 2:50 pm From: Nancy Anthracite <nanthrac...@verizon.net> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 14:50:34 -0500 Local: Tues, Nov 25 2008 2:50 pm Subject: Re: [Hardhats] Re: Intracare Implementation Log Episode 30: Change Access/Verify code text to UserID/Password? Reply to author | Forward | Print | Individual message | Show original | Report this message | Find messages by this author It will not take long for the word of mouth to spread so rather than try to find all of the places that it would need to be changed, why not just let the users learn in their training sessions and from each other?

85,000 people are trained to use VistA by the VA every year.

On Tuesday 25 November 2008, I, Valdes wrote:

- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - > I would rather not have to explain it at all and the users would like > to not to have to ask. I have no wish to change the code or how it > works other than the text for the Prompt. Is there a way to change the > Prompt text? -- IV

> On Nov 25, 11:37 am, "David Whitten" <whit...@worldvista.org> wrote: > > Calling Access Code and Verify Code as UserID and Password would be > > a mistake. They are better explained as two passwords. One that is > > known to the user and the Computer department, initially, and one that > > is only known to the user. This is the way it originally was planned. > > Now, I think the computer department knows the Access Code and > > the initial Verify Code, but the Verify Code must be changed as soon > > as the first login occurs. Adding a UserID would be possible, after all, > > the code is available. But other than just making it something that is > > asked and ignored, it would involve changing the way that CPRS works > > as the RPC based protocol would need to use it as well as the Access > > Code and Verify Code to ascertain identity of the user.

> > David

> > On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 11:29 AM, Ignacio Valdes <ival...@hal-pc.org> wrote: > > > Hi all,

> > > I'm finding I have to spend a lot of time explaining what > > > Access/Verify code is and sometimes people are unable to remember what > > > that means so they either are not able to login, or they call me. How > > > can I change the text Prompt to say UserID/Password both in the text > > > interface and CPRS? Alternatively, I can change it to UserID/Access > > > Code, Password/Verify Code.

> > > -- IV

-- Nancy Anthracite

Reply to author   Forward Report spam Reporting spam Message reported Rate this post: Text for clearing space You must Sign in before you can post messages. To post a message you must first join this group. Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting. You do not have the permission required to post. Discussion subject changed to "ReCould you check to see if: [Hardhats] Re: Intracare Implementation Log Episode 30: Change Access/Verify code text to UserID/Password?" by Nancy Anthracite Nancy Anthracite View profile More options Nov 25 2008, 3:03 pm From: Nancy Anthracite <nanthrac...@verizon.net> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 15:03:17 -0500 Local: Tues, Nov 25 2008 3:03 pm Subject: ReCould you check to see if: [Hardhats] Re: Intracare Implementation Log Episode 30: Change Access/Verify code text to UserID/Password? Reply to author | Forward | Print | Individual message | Show original | Report this message | Find messages by this author You also have the whole menu system to change and the routines line D ^ZU and I am not sure what else.

On Tuesday 25 November 2008, Greg Woodhouse wrote: > The short answer is no, it can't be done with a KID file.

> It's the people that make change management (CM) decisions for WorldVistA > that you need to talk to. All I can do is answer your question. In general, > it's a good software engineering practice to keep Prompt strings in a > resource bundle (in the Delphi/Win32 code). If this has been done, then the > bundle itself can be modified, but I have no idea as to whether it was > designed that way. If the Prompts were being issued on the M side, then the > corresponding VistA concept would be the DIALOG file, and it could be > handled there, but it isn't.

> On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 11:36 AM, fred trotter

<fred.trot...@gmail.com>wrote:

- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - > > With all due respect to "how it is in the VA". This is a subject of > > constant confusion outside the VA, and outside the VA the "computer > > department" simply does not have the political strength and respect it > > has inside. While this is a shame it is also a reality.

> > There is obviously a way to change this, but is there a way that can > > be conveniently modularized? Perhaps a kid file (knowing little about > > what that actually means).

> > Username/Password is better just about everywhere other than the VA...

> > Ideas about easy, future proof fixes welcome.

> > -FT

> > On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 1:22 PM, I, Valdes <ival...@hal-pc.org> wrote: > > > I would rather not have to explain it at all and the users would like > > > to not to have to ask. I have no wish to change the code or how it > > > works other than the text for the Prompt. Is there a way to change the > > > Prompt text? -- IV

> > > On Nov 25, 11:37 am, "David Whitten" <whit...@worldvista.org> wrote: > > >> Calling Access Code and Verify Code as UserID and Password would be > > >> a mistake. They are better explained as two passwords. One that is > > >> known to the user and the Computer department, initially, and one that > > >> is only known to the user. This is the way it originally was planned. > > >> Now, I think the computer department knows the Access Code and > > >> the initial Verify Code, but the Verify Code must be changed as soon > > >> as the first login occurs. Adding a UserID would be possible, after

> > all,

> > >> the code is available. But other than just making it something that is > > >> asked and ignored, it would involve changing the way that CPRS works > > >> as the RPC based protocol would need to use it as well as the Access > > >> Code and Verify Code to ascertain identity of the user.

> > >> David

> > >> On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 11:29 AM, Ignacio Valdes <ival...@hal-pc.org>

> > wrote: > > >> > Hi all,

> > >> > I'm finding I have to spend a lot of time explaining what > > >> > Access/Verify code is and sometimes people are unable to remember > > >> > what that means so they either are not able to login, or they call > > >> > me. How can I change the text Prompt to say UserID/Password both in > > >> > the text interface and CPRS? Alternatively, I can change it to > > >> > UserID/Access Code, Password/Verify Code.

> > >> > -- IV

> > -- > > Fred Trotter > > http://www.fredtrotter.com

-- Nancy Anthracite

Reply to author   Forward Report spam Reporting spam Message reported Rate this post: You must Sign in before you can post messages. To post a message you must first join this group. Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting. You do not have the permission required to post. Discussion subject changed to "Intracare Implementation Log Episode 30: Change Access/Verify code text to UserID/Password?" by I, Valdes I, Valdes View profile More options Nov 25 2008, 3:49 pm From: "I, Valdes" <ival...@hal-pc.org> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 12:49:56 -0800 (PST) Local: Tues, Nov 25 2008 3:49 pm Subject: Re: Intracare Implementation Log Episode 30: Change Access/Verify code text to UserID/Password? Reply to author | Forward | Print | Individual message | Show original | Report this message | Find messages by this author Because it is user and support staff hostile? Because it is opaque and meaningless for nearly everyone? Because most support staff calls are about userid's and passwords and access/verify code makes this more labor intensive, that even 'trained' personnel cannot remember, ie do not stay trained, on what it means? That this seems like it could be easily changed but isn't? That the introduction to a rich and powerful system is the most stressful part for both the user and support staff and could be made easier? I say all of this from first hand knowledge.

-- IV

On Nov 25, 1:50 pm, Nancy Anthracite <nanthrac...@verizon.net> wrote:

- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - > It will not take long for the word of mouth to spread so rather than try to > find all of the places that it would need to be changed, why not just let the > users learn in their training sessions and from each other?

> 85,000 people are trained to use VistA by the VA every year.

> On Tuesday 25 November 2008, I, Valdes wrote:

> > I would rather not have to explain it at all and the users would like > > to not to have to ask. I have no wish to change the code or how it > > works other than the text for the Prompt. Is there a way to change the > > Prompt text? -- IV

> > On Nov 25, 11:37 am, "David Whitten" <whit...@worldvista.org> wrote: > > > Calling Access Code and Verify Code as UserID and Password would be > > > a mistake. They are better explained as two passwords. One that is > > > known to the user and the Computer department, initially, and one that > > > is only known to the user. This is the way it originally was planned. > > > Now, I think the computer department knows the Access Code and > > > the initial Verify Code, but the Verify Code must be changed as soon > > > as the first login occurs. Adding a UserID would be possible, after all, > > > the code is available. But other than just making it something that is > > > asked and ignored, it would involve changing the way that CPRS works > > > as the RPC based protocol would need to use it as well as the Access > > > Code and Verify Code to ascertain identity of the user.

> > > David

> > > On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 11:29 AM, Ignacio Valdes <ival...@hal-pc.org> > wrote: > > > > Hi all,

> > > > I'm finding I have to spend a lot of time explaining what > > > > Access/Verify code is and sometimes people are unable to remember what > > > > that means so they either are not able to login, or they call me. How > > > > can I change the text Prompt to say UserID/Password both in the text > > > > interface and CPRS? Alternatively, I can change it to UserID/Access > > > > Code, Password/Verify Code.

> > > > -- IV

> -- > Nancy Anthracite

Reply to author   Forward Report spam Reporting spam Message reported Rate this post: Text for clearing space You must Sign in before you can post messages. To post a message you must first join this group. Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting. You do not have the permission required to post. Nancy Anthracite View profile More options Nov 25 2008, 4:27 pm From: Nancy Anthracite <nanthrac...@verizon.net> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 16:27:17 -0500 Local: Tues, Nov 25 2008 4:27 pm Subject: Re: [Hardhats] Re: Intracare Implementation Log Episode 30: Change Access/Verify code text to UserID/Password? Reply to author | Forward | Print | Individual message | Show original | Report this message | Find messages by this author Although I hear what you are saying, but I don't think this is too onerous to tolerate for now for a number of reasons.

In general user IDs are not confidential. For a VistA/CPRS system, like Dave said, this is like two passwords and in that sense, maybe it is a good idea to have folks think it is different.

In addition, for systems like Linux systems with user name and password to access a terminal and then Access and Verify to get into VistA, and with Cache/Windows where there may also be a separate login for a terminal session preceding entering the Access and Verify Codes, it can help make it clear what you are talking about when you discuss the two layers of security.

You also have the risk of breaking things changing this throughout VistA roll and scroll and its numerous GUIs, so changes would require a lot of QA testing in the various systems to check it out.

Although it can be done, it is not going to be easy or inexpensive in money or in volunteer time.

On Tuesday 25 November 2008, I, Valdes wrote:

- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - > Because it is user and support staff hostile? Because it is opaque and > meaningless for nearly everyone? Because most support staff calls are > about userid's and passwords and access/verify code makes this more > labor intensive, that even 'trained' personnel cannot remember, ie do > not stay trained, on what it means? That this seems like it could be > easily changed but isn't? That the introduction to a rich and powerful > system is the most stressful part for both the user and support staff > and could be made easier? I say all of this from first hand > knowledge.

> -- IV

> On Nov 25, 1:50 pm, Nancy Anthracite <nanthrac...@verizon.net> wrote: > > It will not take long for the word of mouth to spread so rather than try > > to find all of the places that it would need to be changed, why not just > > let the users learn in their training sessions and from each other?

> > 85,000 people are trained to use VistA by the VA every year.

> > On Tuesday 25 November 2008, I, Valdes wrote: > > > I would rather not have to explain it at all and the users would like > > > to not to have to ask. I have no wish to change the code or how it > > > works other than the text for the Prompt. Is there a way to change the > > > Prompt text? -- IV

> > > On Nov 25, 11:37 am, "David Whitten" <whit...@worldvista.org> wrote: > > > > Calling Access Code and Verify Code as UserID and Password would be > > > > a mistake. They are better explained as two passwords. One that is > > > > known to the user and the Computer department, initially, and one > > > > that is only known to the user. This is the way it originally was > > > > planned. Now, I think the computer department knows the Access Code > > > > and the initial Verify Code, but the Verify Code must be changed as > > > > soon as the first login occurs. Adding a UserID would be possible, > > > > after all, the code is available. But other than just making it > > > > something that is asked and ignored, it would involve changing the > > > > way that CPRS works as the RPC based protocol would need to use it as > > > > well as the Access Code and Verify Code to ascertain identity of the > > > > user.

> > > > David

> > > > On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 11:29 AM, Ignacio Valdes <ival...@hal-pc.org>

> > wrote: > > > > > Hi all,

> > > > > I'm finding I have to spend a lot of time explaining what > > > > > Access/Verify code is and sometimes people are unable to remember > > > > > what that means so they either are not able to login, or they call > > > > > me. How can I change the text Prompt to say UserID/Password both in > > > > > the text interface and CPRS? Alternatively, I can change it to > > > > > UserID/Access Code, Password/Verify Code.

> > > > > -- IV

> > -- > > Nancy Anthracite

-- Nancy Anthracite

Reply to author   Forward Report spam Reporting spam Message reported Rate this post: Text for clearing space You must Sign in before you can post messages. To post a message you must first join this group. Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting. You do not have the permission required to post. kdtop3@gmail.com View profile More options Nov 25 2008, 7:39 pm From: "kdt...@gmail.com" <kdt...@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 16:39:58 -0800 (PST) Local: Tues, Nov 25 2008 7:39 pm Subject: Re: Intracare Implementation Log Episode 30: Change Access/Verify code text to UserID/Password? Reply to author | Forward | Print | Individual message | Show original | Report this message | Find messages by this author Ignacio,

I also was bother by this. I got CPRS compilling and simply chaged the label beside the login in area to "Login" and "Password". I also make the "Login" to not be hidden.

The rest of the world has gone the route of Login/Password. In a hospital setting, you might be better to follow the VA way, but in my small office, I like my way.

Kevin

On Nov 25, 12:29 pm, "Ignacio Valdes" <ival...@hal-pc.org> wrote:

- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - > Hi all,

> I'm finding I have to spend a lot of time explaining what > Access/Verify code is and sometimes people are unable to remember what > that means so they either are not able to login, or they call me. How > can I change the text Prompt to say UserID/Password both in the text > interface and CPRS? Alternatively, I can change it to UserID/Access > Code, Password/Verify Code.

> -- IV

Reply to author   Forward Report spam Reporting spam Message reported Rate this post: Text for clearing space You must Sign in before you can post messages. To post a message you must first join this group. Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting. You do not have the permission required to post. kdtop3@gmail.com View profile More options Nov 25 2008, 7:42 pm From: "kdt...@gmail.com" <kdt...@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 16:42:21 -0800 (PST) Local: Tues, Nov 25 2008 7:42 pm Subject: Re: Intracare Implementation Log Episode 30: Change Access/Verify code text to UserID/Password? Reply to author | Forward | Print | Individual message | Show original | Report this message | Find messages by this author Greg,

Unfortunately, Delphi does not keep strings in a resource file. Otherwise it would be easy to change. I had to modify the RPC Broker file on the GUI side to make the label read the way I want it to.

Kevin

On Nov 25, 2:45 pm, "Greg Woodhouse" <gregory.woodho...@gmail.com> wrote:

- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - > The short answer is no, it can't be done with a KID file.

> It's the people that make change management (CM) decisions for WorldVistA > that you need to talk to. All I can do is answer your question. In general, > it's a good software engineering practice to keep Prompt strings in a > resource bundle (in the Delphi/Win32 code). If this has been done, then the > bundle itself can be modified, but I have no idea as to whether it was > designed that way. If the Prompts were being issued on the M side, then the > corresponding VistA concept would be the DIALOG file, and it could be > handled there, but it isn't.

> On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 11:36 AM, fred trotter <fred.trot...@gmail.com>wrote:

> > With all due respect to "how it is in the VA". This is a subject of > > constant confusion outside the VA, and outside the VA the "computer > > department" simply does not have the political strength and respect it > > has inside. While this is a shame it is also a reality.

> > There is obviously a way to change this, but is there a way that can > > be conveniently modularized? Perhaps a kid file (knowing little about > > what that actually means).

> > Username/Password is better just about everywhere other than the VA...

> > Ideas about easy, future proof fixes welcome.

> > -FT

> > On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 1:22 PM, I, Valdes <ival...@hal-pc.org> wrote:

> > > I would rather not have to explain it at all and the users would like > > > to not to have to ask. I have no wish to change the code or how it > > > works other than the text for the Prompt. Is there a way to change the > > > Prompt text? -- IV

> > > On Nov 25, 11:37 am, "David Whitten" <whit...@worldvista.org> wrote: > > >> Calling Access Code and Verify Code as UserID and Password would be > > >> a mistake. They are better explained as two passwords. One that is > > >> known to the user and the Computer department, initially, and one that > > >> is only known to the user. This is the way it originally was planned. > > >> Now, I think the computer department knows the Access Code and > > >> the initial Verify Code, but the Verify Code must be changed as soon > > >> as the first login occurs. Adding a UserID would be possible, after > > all, > > >> the code is available. But other than just making it something that is > > >> asked and ignored, it would involve changing the way that CPRS works > > >> as the RPC based protocol would need to use it as well as the Access > > >> Code and Verify Code to ascertain identity of the user.

> > >> David

> > >> On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 11:29 AM, Ignacio Valdes <ival...@hal-pc.org> > > wrote:

> > >> > Hi all,

> > >> > I'm finding I have to spend a lot of time explaining what > > >> > Access/Verify code is and sometimes people are unable to remember what > > >> > that means so they either are not able to login, or they call me. How > > >> > can I change the text Prompt to say UserID/Password both in the text > > >> > interface and CPRS? Alternatively, I can change it to UserID/Access > > >> > Code, Password/Verify Code.

> > >> > -- IV

> > -- > > Fred Trotter > >http://www.fredtrotter.com

Reply to author   Forward Report spam Reporting spam Message reported Rate this post: Text for clearing space You must Sign in before you can post messages. To post a message you must first join this group. Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting. You do not have the permission required to post. Discussion subject changed to "ReCould you check to see if: [Hardhats] Re: Intracare Implementation Log Episode 30: Change Access/Verify code text to UserID/Password?" by kdtop3@gmail.com kdtop3@gmail.com View profile More options Nov 25 2008, 7:43 pm From: "kdt...@gmail.com" <kdt...@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 16:43:20 -0800 (PST) Local: Tues, Nov 25 2008 7:43 pm Subject: Re: ReCould you check to see if: [Hardhats] Re: Intracare Implementation Log Episode 30: Change Access/Verify code text to UserID/Password? Reply to author | Forward | Print | Individual message | Show original | Report this message | Find messages by this author No, nothing has to be changed on the server side. The functionality of the passwords doesn't change, just the labeling in CPRS.

Kevin

On Nov 25, 3:03 pm, Nancy Anthracite <nanthrac...@verizon.net> wrote:

- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - > You also have the whole menu system to change and the routines line D ^ZU and > I am not sure what else.

> On Tuesday 25 November 2008, Greg Woodhouse wrote:> The short answer is no, it can't be done with a KID file.

> > It's the people that make change management (CM) decisions for WorldVistA > > that you need to talk to. All I can do is answer your question. In general, > > it's a good software engineering practice to keep Prompt strings in a > > resource bundle (in the Delphi/Win32 code). If this has been done, then the > > bundle itself can be modified, but I have no idea as to whether it was > > designed that way. If the Prompts were being issued on the M side, then the > > corresponding VistA concept would be the DIALOG file, and it could be > > handled there, but it isn't.

> > On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 11:36 AM, fred trotter

> <fred.trot...@gmail.com>wrote:

> > > With all due respect to "how it is in the VA". This is a subject of > > > constant confusion outside the VA, and outside the VA the "computer > > > department" simply does not have the political strength and respect it > > > has inside. While this is a shame it is also a reality.

> > > There is obviously a way to change this, but is there a way that can > > > be conveniently modularized? Perhaps a kid file (knowing little about > > > what that actually means).

> > > Username/Password is better just about everywhere other than the VA...

> > > Ideas about easy, future proof fixes welcome.

> > > -FT

> > > On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 1:22 PM, I, Valdes <ival...@hal-pc.org> wrote: > > > > I would rather not have to explain it at all and the users would like > > > > to not to have to ask. I have no wish to change the code or how it > > > > works other than the text for the Prompt. Is there a way to change the > > > > Prompt text? -- IV

> > > > On Nov 25, 11:37 am, "David Whitten" <whit...@worldvista.org> wrote: > > > >> Calling Access Code and Verify Code as UserID and Password would be > > > >> a mistake. They are better explained as two passwords. One that is > > > >> known to the user and the Computer department, initially, and one that > > > >> is only known to the user. This is the way it originally was planned. > > > >> Now, I think the computer department knows the Access Code and > > > >> the initial Verify Code, but the Verify Code must be changed as soon > > > >> as the first login occurs. Adding a UserID would be possible, after

> > > all,

> > > >> the code is available. But other than just making it something that is > > > >> asked and ignored, it would involve changing the way that CPRS works > > > >> as the RPC based protocol would need to use it as well as the Access > > > >> Code and Verify Code to ascertain identity of the user.

> > > >> David

> > > >> On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 11:29 AM, Ignacio Valdes <ival...@hal-pc.org>

> > > wrote: > > > >> > Hi all,

> > > >> > I'm finding I have to spend a lot of time explaining what > > > >> > Access/Verify code is and sometimes people are unable to remember > > > >> > what that means so they either are not able to login, or they call > > > >> > me. How can I change the text Prompt to say UserID/Password both in > > > >> > the text interface and CPRS? Alternatively, I can change it to > > > >> > UserID/Access Code, Password/Verify Code.

> > > >> > -- IV

> > > -- > > > Fred Trotter > > >http://www.fredtrotter.com

> -- > Nancy Anthracite

Reply to author   Forward Report spam Reporting spam Message reported Rate this post: Text for clearing space You must Sign in before you can post messages. To post a message you must first join this group. Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting. You do not have the permission required to post. Nancy Anthracite View profile More options Nov 25 2008, 8:04 pm From: Nancy Anthracite <nanthrac...@verizon.net> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 20:04:37 -0500 Local: Tues, Nov 25 2008 8:04 pm Subject: Re: [Hardhats] Re: ReCould you check to see if: [Hardhats] Re: Intracare Implementation Log Episode 30: Change Access/Verify code text to UserID/Password? Reply to author | Forward | Print | Individual message | Show original | Report this message | Find messages by this author What I am talking abou is things in the are Prompts such as "Do you want to edit the Access Code Y/N", and the Menus such as "Purge Log of Old Access and Verify Codes" and the access point program D ^ZU and the Mental Heath manager GUI, the Query GUI, etc.

It is not a one time fix in one place in one GUI.

On Tuesday 25 November 2008, kdt...@gmail.com wrote:

- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - > No, nothing has to be changed on the server side. The functionality > of the passwords doesn't change, just the labeling in CPRS.

> Kevin

> On Nov 25, 3:03 pm, Nancy Anthracite <nanthrac...@verizon.net> wrote: > > You also have the whole menu system to change and the routines line D ^ZU > > and I am not sure what else.

> > On Tuesday 25 November 2008, Greg Woodhouse wrote:> The short answer is > > no, it can't be done with a KID file.

> > > It's the people that make change management (CM) decisions for > > > WorldVistA that you need to talk to. All I can do is answer your > > > question. In general, it's a good software engineering practice to keep > > > Prompt strings in a resource bundle (in the Delphi/Win32 code). If this > > > has been done, then the bundle itself can be modified, but I have no > > > idea as to whether it was designed that way. If the Prompts were being > > > issued on the M side, then the corresponding VistA concept would be the > > > DIALOG file, and it could be handled there, but it isn't.

> > > On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 11:36 AM, fred trotter

> > <fred.trot...@gmail.com>wrote: > > > > With all due respect to "how it is in the VA". This is a subject of > > > > constant confusion outside the VA, and outside the VA the "computer > > > > department" simply does not have the political strength and respect > > > > it has inside. While this is a shame it is also a reality.

> > > > There is obviously a way to change this, but is there a way that can > > > > be conveniently modularized? Perhaps a kid file (knowing little about > > > > what that actually means).

> > > > Username/Password is better just about everywhere other than the > > > > VA...

> > > > Ideas about easy, future proof fixes welcome.

> > > > -FT

> > > > On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 1:22 PM, I, Valdes <ival...@hal-pc.org> wrote: > > > > > I would rather not have to explain it at all and the users would > > > > > like to not to have to ask. I have no wish to change the code or > > > > > how it works other than the text for the Prompt. Is there a way to > > > > > change the Prompt text? -- IV

> > > > > On Nov 25, 11:37 am, "David Whitten" <whit...@worldvista.org> wrote: > > > > >> Calling Access Code and Verify Code as UserID and Password would > > > > >> be a mistake. They are better explained as two passwords. One > > > > >> that is known to the user and the Computer department, initially, > > > > >> and one that is only known to the user. This is the way it > > > > >> originally was planned. Now, I think the computer department knows > > > > >> the Access Code and the initial Verify Code, but the Verify Code > > > > >> must be changed as soon as the first login occurs. Adding a > > > > >> UserID would be possible, after

> > > > all,

> > > > >> the code is available. But other than just making it something > > > > >> that is asked and ignored, it would involve changing the way that > > > > >> CPRS works as the RPC based protocol would need to use it as well > > > > >> as the Access Code and Verify Code to ascertain identity of the > > > > >> user.

> > > > >> David

> > > > >> On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 11:29 AM, Ignacio Valdes > > > > >> <ival...@hal-pc.org>

> > > > wrote: > > > > >> > Hi all,

> > > > >> > I'm finding I have to spend a lot of time explaining what > > > > >> > Access/Verify code is and sometimes people are unable to > > > > >> > remember what that means so they either are not able to login, > > > > >> > or they call me. How can I change the text Prompt to say > > > > >> > UserID/Password both in the text interface and CPRS? > > > > >> > Alternatively, I can change it to UserID/Access Code, > > > > >> > Password/Verify Code.

> > > > >> > -- IV

> > > > -- > > > > Fred Trotter > > > >http://www.fredtrotter.com

> > -- > > Nancy Anthracite

-- Nancy Anthracite

Reply to author   Forward Report spam Reporting spam Message reported Rate this post: Text for clearing space You must Sign in before you can post messages. To post a message you must first join this group. Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting. You do not have the permission required to post. Discussion subject changed to "Intracare Implementation Log Episode 30: Change Access/Verify code text to UserID/Password?" by Kevin Toppenberg Kevin Toppenberg View profile More options Nov 25 2008, 8:06 pm From: "Kevin Toppenberg" <kdt...@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 20:06:07 -0500 Local: Tues, Nov 25 2008 8:06 pm Subject: Re: [Hardhats] Re: Intracare Implementation Log Episode 30: Change Access/Verify code text to UserID/Password? Reply to author | Forward | Print | Individual message | Show original | Report this message | Find messages by this author

Attached is an image of my login screen.

Be aware, however, that all modifications to CPRS imply carrying forward such changes with each subsequent CPRS version--which can be an effort/expensive etc.

If you could get your users past this issue (as I assume they are able to do in the VA), then you would save yourself some work in the future.

Kevin

- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 7:39 PM, kdt...@gmail.com <kdt...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Ignacio,

> I also was bother by this. I got CPRS compilling and simply chaged > the label beside the login in area to "Login" and "Password". I also > make the "Login" to not be hidden.

> The rest of the world has gone the route of Login/Password. In a > hospital setting, you might be better to follow the VA way, but in my > small office, I like my way.

> Kevin

> On Nov 25, 12:29 pm, "Ignacio Valdes" <ival...@hal-pc.org> wrote: > > Hi all,

> > I'm finding I have to spend a lot of time explaining what > > Access/Verify code is and sometimes people are unable to remember what > > that means so they either are not able to login, or they call me. How > > can I change the text Prompt to say UserID/Password both in the text > > interface and CPRS? Alternatively, I can change it to UserID/Access > > Code, Password/Verify Code.

> > -- IV

-- Thanks, Kevin T

loginscreenshot.jpg 141K View Download

Reply to author   Forward Report spam Reporting spam Message reported Rate this post: Text for clearing space You must Sign in before you can post messages. To post a message you must first join this group. Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting. You do not have the permission required to post. Discussion subject changed to "ReCould you check to see if: [Hardhats] Re: Intracare Implementation Log Episode 30: Change Access/Verify code text to UserID/Password?" by I, Valdes I, Valdes View profile More options Nov 25 2008, 9:28 pm From: "I, Valdes" <ival...@hal-pc.org> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 18:28:39 -0800 (PST) Local: Tues, Nov 25 2008 9:28 pm Subject: Re: ReCould you check to see if: [Hardhats] Re: Intracare Implementation Log Episode 30: Change Access/Verify code text to UserID/Password? Reply to author | Forward | Print | Individual message | Show original | Report this message | Find messages by this author Does anyone know and can communicate how to change just the login Prompt text for the text-based system?

This would be JUST the login Prompt text.

What I want is a possibly relatively easy change of the static Prompt text as Kevin is saying not a system overhaul in all places. This change is for non-IT personnel like Nurses, Doctor's, Clerks and casual users of the system just at the login Prompt. I have no interest in changing it all under the covers where skilled IT personnel that interact with the system all the time know better.

Kevin, bravo on your CPRS client change, that's exactly what I'd like to do but is beyond my current capability with CPRS.

-- IV

On Nov 25, 7:04 pm, Nancy Anthracite <nanthrac...@verizon.net> wrote:

- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - > What I am talking abou is things in the are Prompts such as "Do you want to > edit the Access Code Y/N", and the Menus such as "Purge Log of Old Access > and Verify Codes" and the access point program D ^ZU and the Mental Heath > manager GUI, the Query GUI, etc.

> It is not a one time fix in one place in one GUI.

> On Tuesday 25 November 2008, kdt...@gmail.com wrote:

> > No, nothing has to be changed on the server side. The functionality > > of the passwords doesn't change, just the labeling in CPRS.

> > Kevin

> > On Nov 25, 3:03 pm, Nancy Anthracite <nanthrac...@verizon.net> wrote: > > > You also have the whole menu system to change and the routines line D ^ZU > > > and I am not sure what else.

> > > On Tuesday 25 November 2008, Greg Woodhouse wrote:> The short answer is > > > no, it can't be done with a KID file.

> > > > It's the people that make change management (CM) decisions for > > > > WorldVistA that you need to talk to. All I can do is answer your > > > > question. In general, it's a good software engineering practice to keep > > > > Prompt strings in a resource bundle (in the Delphi/Win32 code). If this > > > > has been done, then the bundle itself can be modified, but I have no > > > > idea as to whether it was designed that way. If the Prompts were being > > > > issued on the M side, then the corresponding VistA concept would be the > > > > DIALOG file, and it could be handled there, but it isn't.

> > > > On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 11:36 AM, fred trotter

> > > <fred.trot...@gmail.com>wrote: > > > > > With all due respect to "how it is in the VA". This is a subject of > > > > > constant confusion outside the VA, and outside the VA the "computer > > > > > department" simply does not have the political strength and respect > > > > > it has inside. While this is a shame it is also a reality.

> > > > > There is obviously a way to change this, but is there a way that can > > > > > be conveniently modularized? Perhaps a kid file (knowing little about > > > > > what that actually means).

> > > > > Username/Password is better just about everywhere other than the > > > > > VA...

> > > > > Ideas about easy, future proof fixes welcome.

> > > > > -FT

> > > > > On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 1:22 PM, I, Valdes <ival...@hal-pc.org> wrote: > > > > > > I would rather not have to explain it at all and the users would > > > > > > like to not to have to ask. I have no wish to change the code or > > > > > > how it works other than the text for the Prompt. Is there a way to > > > > > > change the Prompt text? -- IV

> > > > > > On Nov 25, 11:37 am, "David Whitten" <whit...@worldvista.org> wrote: > > > > > >> Calling Access Code and Verify Code as UserID and Password would > > > > > >> be a mistake. They are better explained as two passwords. One > > > > > >> that is known to the user and the Computer department, initially, > > > > > >> and one that is only known to the user. This is the way it > > > > > >> originally was planned. Now, I think the computer department knows > > > > > >> the Access Code and the initial Verify Code, but the Verify Code > > > > > >> must be changed as soon as the first login occurs. Adding a > > > > > >> UserID would be possible, after

> > > > > all,

> > > > > >> the code is available. But other than just making it something > > > > > >> that is asked and ignored, it would involve changing the way that > > > > > >> CPRS works as the RPC based protocol would need to use it as well > > > > > >> as the Access Code and Verify Code to ascertain identity of the > > > > > >> user.

> > > > > >> David

> > > > > >> On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 11:29 AM, Ignacio Valdes > > > > > >> <ival...@hal-pc.org>

> > > > > wrote: > > > > > >> > Hi all,

> > > > > >> > I'm finding I have to spend a lot of time explaining what > > > > > >> > Access/Verify code is and sometimes people are unable to > > > > > >> > remember what that means so they either are not able to login, > > > > > >> > or they call me. How can I change the text Prompt to say > > > > > >> > UserID/Password both in the text interface and CPRS? > > > > > >> > Alternatively, I can change it to UserID/Access Code, > > > > > >> > Password/Verify Code.

> > > > > >> > -- IV

> > > > > -- > > > > > Fred Trotter > > > > >http://www.fredtrotter.com

> > > -- > > > Nancy Anthracite

> -- > Nancy Anthracite

Reply to author   Forward Report spam Reporting spam Message reported Rate this post: Text for clearing space You must Sign in before you can post messages. To post a message you must first join this group. Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting. You do not have the permission required to post. Discussion subject changed to "Intracare Implementation Log Episode 30: Change Access/Verify code text to UserID/Password?" by JohnLeo Zimmer JohnLeo Zimmer View profile More options Nov 25 2008, 10:44 pm From: "JohnLeo Zimmer" <johnleo...@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 22:44:37 -0500 Local: Tues, Nov 25 2008 10:44 pm Subject: Re: [Hardhats] Re: Intracare Implementation Log Episode 30: Change Access/Verify code text to UserID/Password? Reply to author | Forward | Print | Individual message | Show original | Report this message | Find messages by this author Making this sort of a change is simple in ^XUS and should be in CPRS. Sites should be able to label these as they see fit. (I understand that it is not simple.)

1. I like Kevin's solution. And I think it would be worthwhile... 2. especially if CPRS could be made to make an RPC to the Dialog file to set these Prompt. 3. Something of the sort will be needed for internationalization as well.

jlz

Reply to author   Forward Report spam Reporting spam Message reported Rate this post: Text for clearing space You must Sign in before you can post messages. To post a message you must first join this group. Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting. You do not have the permission required to post. I, Valdes View profile More options Nov 25 2008, 10:51 pm From: "I, Valdes" <ival...@hal-pc.org> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 19:51:38 -0800 (PST) Local: Tues, Nov 25 2008 10:51 pm Subject: Re: Intracare Implementation Log Episode 30: Change Access/Verify code text to UserID/Password? Reply to author | Forward | Print | Individual message | Show original | Report this message | Find messages by this author How does one change this in text-based? The staff uses text-based to register and schedule the patients so this could help. -- IV

On Nov 25, 9:44 pm, "JohnLeo Zimmer" <johnleo...@gmail.com> wrote:

- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - > Making this sort of a change is simple in ^XUS and should be in CPRS. > Sites should be able to label these as they see fit. > (I understand that it is not simple.)

> 1. I like Kevin's solution. And I think it would be worthwhile... > 2. especially if CPRS could be made to make an RPC to the Dialog file > to set these Prompt. > 3. Something of the sort will be needed for internationalization as well.

> jlz

Reply to author   Forward Report spam Reporting spam Message reported Rate this post: Text for clearing space You must Sign in before you can post messages. To post a message you must first join this group. Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting. You do not have the permission required to post. Discussion subject changed to "ReCould you check to see if: [Hardhats] Re: Intracare Implementation Log Episode 30: Change Access/Verify code text to UserID/Password?" by Nancy Anthracite Nancy Anthracite View profile More options Nov 25 2008, 11:03 pm From: Nancy Anthracite <nanthrac...@verizon.net> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 23:03:25 -0500 Local: Tues, Nov 25 2008 11:03 pm Subject: Re: [Hardhats] Re: ReCould you check to see if: [Hardhats] Re: Intracare Implementation Log Episode 30: Change Access/Verify code text to UserID/Password? Reply to author | Forward | Print | Individual message | Show original | Report this message | Find messages by this author That would be in Delphi code for CPRS and for the other GUIs. However, the roll and scroll is used for a number of things by users, so there they will be facing Access and Verify code Prompts, which, I learned tonight, are actually field names in some cases in VistA, and in the routines in others, so just changing the Prompts is not really a "just" sort of thing.

On Tuesday 25 November 2008, ivald...@gmail.com wrote:

- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - > Does anyone know and can communicate how to change just the login > Prompt text for the text-based system?

> This would be JUST the login Prompt text.

> What I want is a possibly relatively easy change of the static Prompt > text as Kevin is saying not a system overhaul in all places. This > change is for non-IT personnel like Nurses, Doctor's, Clerks and > casual users of the system just at the login Prompt. I have no > interest in changing it all under the covers where skilled IT > personnel that interact with the system all the time know better.

> -- IV

> On Nov 25, 7:04 pm, Nancy Anthracite <nanthrac...@verizon.net> wrote: > > What I am talking abou is things in the are Prompts such as "Do you want > > to edit the Access Code Y/N", and the Menus such as "Purge Log of Old > > Access and Verify Codes" and the access point program D ^ZU and the > > Mental Heath manager GUI, the Query GUI, etc.

> > It is not a one time fix in one place in one GUI.

> > On Tuesday 25 November 2008, kdt...@gmail.com wrote: > > > No, nothing has to be changed on the server side. The functionality > > > of the passwords doesn't change, just the labeling in CPRS.

> > > Kevin

> > > On Nov 25, 3:03 pm, Nancy Anthracite <nanthrac...@verizon.net> wrote: > > > > You also have the whole menu system to change and the routines line D > > > > ^ZU and I am not sure what else.

> > > > On Tuesday 25 November 2008, Greg Woodhouse wrote:> The short answer > > > > is no, it can't be done with a KID file.

> > > > > It's the people that make change management (CM) decisions for > > > > > WorldVistA that you need to talk to. All I can do is answer your > > > > > question. In general, it's a good software engineering practice to > > > > > keep Prompt strings in a resource bundle (in the Delphi/Win32 > > > > > code). If this has been done, then the bundle itself can be > > > > > modified, but I have no idea as to whether it was designed that > > > > > way. If the Prompts were being issued on the M side, then the > > > > > corresponding VistA concept would be the DIALOG file, and it could > > > > > be handled there, but it isn't.

> > > > > On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 11:36 AM, fred trotter

> > > > <fred.trot...@gmail.com>wrote: > > > > > > With all due respect to "how it is in the VA". This is a subject > > > > > > of constant confusion outside the VA, and outside the VA the > > > > > > "computer department" simply does not have the political strength > > > > > > and respect it has inside. While this is a shame it is also a > > > > > > reality.

> > > > > > There is obviously a way to change this, but is there a way that > > > > > > can be conveniently modularized? Perhaps a kid file (knowing > > > > > > little about what that actually means).

> > > > > > Username/Password is better just about everywhere other than the > > > > > > VA...

> > > > > > Ideas about easy, future proof fixes welcome.

> > > > > > -FT

> > > > > > On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 1:22 PM, I, Valdes <ival...@hal-pc.org> wrote: > > > > > > > I would rather not have to explain it at all and the users > > > > > > > would like to not to have to ask. I have no wish to change the > > > > > > > code or how it works other than the text for the Prompt. Is > > > > > > > there a way to change the Prompt text? -- IV

> > > > > > > On Nov 25, 11:37 am, "David Whitten" <whit...@worldvista.org> wrote: > > > > > > >> Calling Access Code and Verify Code as UserID and Password > > > > > > >> would be a mistake. They are better explained as two > > > > > > >> passwords. One that is known to the user and the Computer > > > > > > >> department, initially, and one that is only known to the user. > > > > > > >> This is the way it originally was planned. Now, I think the > > > > > > >> computer department knows the Access Code and the initial > > > > > > >> Verify Code, but the Verify Code must be changed as soon as > > > > > > >> the first login occurs. Adding a UserID would be possible, > > > > > > >> after

> > > > > > all,

> > > > > > >> the code is available. But other than just making it something > > > > > > >> that is asked and ignored, it would involve changing the way > > > > > > >> that CPRS works as the RPC based protocol would need to use it > > > > > > >> as well as the Access Code and Verify Code to ascertain > > > > > > >> identity of the user.

> > > > > > >> David

> > > > > > >> On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 11:29 AM, Ignacio Valdes > > > > > > >> <ival...@hal-pc.org>

> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > >> > Hi all,

> > > > > > >> > I'm finding I have to spend a lot of time explaining what > > > > > > >> > Access/Verify code is and sometimes people are unable to > > > > > > >> > remember what that means so they either are not able to > > > > > > >> > login, or they call me. How can I change the text Prompt to > > > > > > >> > say UserID/Password both in the text interface and CPRS? > > > > > > >> > Alternatively, I can change it to UserID/Access Code, > > > > > > >> > Password/Verify Code.

> > > > > > >> > -- IV

> > > > > > -- > > > > > > Fred Trotter > > > > > >http://www.fredtrotter.com

> > > > -- > > > > Nancy Anthracite

> > -- > > Nancy Anthracite

-- Nancy Anthracite

Reply to author   Forward Report spam Reporting spam Message reported Rate this post: Text for clearing space You must Sign in before you can post messages. To post a message you must first join this group. Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting. You do not have the permission required to post. Discussion subject changed to "Intracare Implementation Log Episode 30: Change Access/Verify code text to UserID/Password?" by JohnLeo Zimmer JohnLeo Zimmer View profile More options Nov 25 2008, 11:52 pm From: "JohnLeo Zimmer" <johnleo...@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 23:52:29 -0500 Local: Tues, Nov 25 2008 11:52 pm Subject: Re: [Hardhats] Re: Intracare Implementation Log Episode 30: Change Access/Verify code text to UserID/Password? Reply to author | Forward | Print | Individual message | Show original | Report this message | Find messages by this author In the DIALOG file entry 30810.51 is "ACCESS CODE: " And entry 30810.52 is "VERIFY CODE: "

The ^XUS routine uses these to display the relevant Prompts. In the ideal world all references to these two entities would call the same entry in DIALOG.

jlz

- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 10:51 PM, I, Valdes <ival...@hal-pc.org> wrote:

> How does one change this in text-based? The staff uses text-based to > register and schedule the patients so this could help. -- IV

> On Nov 25, 9:44 pm, "JohnLeo Zimmer" <johnleo...@gmail.com> wrote: >> Making this sort of a change is simple in ^XUS and should be in CPRS. >> Sites should be able to label these as they see fit. >> (I understand that it is not simple.)

>> 1. I like Kevin's solution. And I think it would be worthwhile... >> 2. especially if CPRS could be made to make an RPC to the Dialog file >> to set these Promptts. >> 3. Something of the sort will be needed for internationalization as well.

>> jlz

Reply to author   Forward Report spam Reporting spam Message reported Rate this post: You must Sign in before you can post messages. To post a message you must first join this group. Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting. You do not have the permission required to post. I, Valdes View profile More options Nov 26 2008, 9:20 am From: "I, Valdes" <ival...@hal-pc.org> Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 06:20:59 -0800 (PST) Local: Wed, Nov 26 2008 9:20 am Subject: Re: Intracare Implementation Log Episode 30: Change Access/Verify code text to UserID/Password? Reply to author | Forward | Print | Individual message | Show original | Report this message | Find messages by this author Here is the solution and terminal session for how to change the Prompt text in Fileman. Please note that this is not a recommended modification by some. Note that I changed only the Prompt text to Login ID/Access Code: and Password/Verify Code: This changes nothing under the covers and it is still Access/Verify everywhere else.

GTM>S DUZ=60 D P^DI

VA FileMan 22.0

Select OPTION: 1 ENTER OR EDIT FILE ENTRIES

INPUT TO WHAT FILE: DIALOG// EDIT WHICH FIELD: ALL//

Select DIALOG: 30810.51   Login/Access code DIALOG NUMBER: 30810.51// TYPE: GENERAL MESSAGE// PACKAGE: KERNEL// SHORT DESCRIPTION: Login/Access code// DESCRIPTION: Login/Access Code

Edit? NO// INTERNAL PARAMETERS NEEDED: TEXT: ACCESS CODE:

Edit? NO// YES

[ WRAP ]
[ INSERT ]================< TEXT >=============== [ <PF1>H=Help ]==== Login ID/ACCESS CODE:

<=======T=======T=======T=======T=======T=======T=======T=======T=======T>======

Select PARAMETER SUBSCRIPT: POST MESSAGE Action: Select LANGUAGE: Select ROUTINE NAME:

Select DIALOG: 30810.52   Verify code DIALOG NUMBER: 30810.52// TYPE: GENERAL MESSAGE// PACKAGE: KERNEL// SHORT DESCRIPTION: Verify code// DESCRIPTION: No existing text Edit? NO// INTERNAL PARAMETERS NEEDED: TEXT: VERIFY CODE:

Edit? NO// YES

[ WRAP ]
[ INSERT ]================< TEXT >=============== [ <PF1>H=Help ]==== Password/VERIFY CODE:

<=======T=======T=======T=======T=======T=======T=======T=======T=======T>======

Select PARAMETER SUBSCRIPT: POST MESSAGE Action: Select LANGUAGE: Select ROUTINE NAME:

Select DIALOG:

Select OPTION: GTM>h

Reply to author   Forward Report spam Reporting spam Message reported Rate this post: Text for clearing space You must Sign in before you can post messages. To post a message you must first join this group. Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting. You do not have the permission required to post. Nancy Anthracite View profile More options Nov 26 2008, 7:12 pm From: Nancy Anthracite <nanthrac...@verizon.net> Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 19:12:07 -0500 Local: Wed, Nov 26 2008 7:12 pm Subject: Re: [Hardhats] Re: Intracare Implementation Log Episode 30: Change Access/Verify code text to UserID/Password? Reply to author | Forward | Print | Individual message | Show original | Report this message | Find messages by this author Now that is a really nice solution! It educates the users so they won't get confused when the see it elsewhere and doesn't break anything. ;-)

On Wednesday 26 November 2008, I, Valdes wrote:

- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - > Here is the solution and terminal session for how to change the Prompt > text in Fileman. Please note that this is not a recommended > modification by some. Note that I changed only the Prompt text to > Login ID/Access Code: and Password/Verify Code: This changes nothing > under the covers and it is still Access/Verify everywhere else.

> GTM>S DUZ=60 D P^DI

> VA FileMan 22.0

> Select OPTION: 1 ENTER OR EDIT FILE ENTRIES

> INPUT TO WHAT FILE: DIALOG// > EDIT WHICH FIELD: ALL//

> Select DIALOG: 30810.51   Login/Access code > DIALOG NUMBER: 30810.51// > TYPE: GENERAL MESSAGE// > PACKAGE: KERNEL// > SHORT DESCRIPTION: Login/Access code// > DESCRIPTION: > Login/Access Code

>  Edit? NO// > INTERNAL PARAMETERS NEEDED: > TEXT: > ACCESS CODE:

>  Edit? NO// YES

> ==[ WRAP ]==[ INSERT ]================< TEXT >=============== > [ <PF1>H=Help ]==== > Login ID/ACCESS CODE:

> <=======T=======T=======T=======T=======T=======T=======T=======T=======T>= >=====

> Select PARAMETER SUBSCRIPT: > POST MESSAGE Action: > Select LANGUAGE: > Select ROUTINE NAME:

> Select DIALOG: 30810.52   Verify code > DIALOG NUMBER: 30810.52// > TYPE: GENERAL MESSAGE// > PACKAGE: KERNEL// > SHORT DESCRIPTION: Verify code// > DESCRIPTION: >  No existing text >  Edit? NO// > INTERNAL PARAMETERS NEEDED: > TEXT: > VERIFY CODE:

>  Edit? NO// YES

> ==[ WRAP ]==[ INSERT ]================< TEXT >=============== > [ <PF1>H=Help ]==== > Password/VERIFY CODE:

> <=======T=======T=======T=======T=======T=======T=======T=======T=======T>= >=====

> Select PARAMETER SUBSCRIPT: > POST MESSAGE Action: > Select LANGUAGE: > Select ROUTINE NAME:

> Select DIALOG:

> Select OPTION: > GTM>h

-- Nancy Anthracite

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